micheal martin vs drink

[redbulljunkie]

Split from topic http//www.gaycork.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1711

[Kyle]

MM said he wants to curtail binge drinking, not stop drinking. Some of the figures released lately are quite alarming and I think a lot of it is just scare mongering in the wake of the smoking ban.

[Bootyzilla]

If That Man is allowed to get his dirty hands on the pub trade even more then I'm leaving the country. Seriously, if the fucker was shot in the morning I'd be thrilled.

[LeBaron]

Booty, I will go with you !
'Nuff is 'nuff

[redbulljunkie]

while I'm totally opposed to the idea of a totalatarian state, I would prefer the power over the people of Ireland to be in the hands of the government rather than the Irish Drug Dealers Association, I mean the Vintners Association. Bunch of thugs out to squeeze the country dry regardless of whatever damage they do. Oh and the price fixing...

[LeBaron]

Hey hey.... leave the drug dealers alone.....
They are doing a fine job and not even Morose Martin had the balls to tackle the availability of drugs in prisons....

Oh ... sorry... just re-read your post

[)]

[thalia]

Its McDowell is tackling drugs in prison. He sorted the prison wardens now he'll sort the druggies.

[Rec]

I agree with RBJ here - it again goes back to the point amnesiac raised in the other thread - the state isn't there to tell you what you can do with you're body (to an extent) but when you start affecting other people (second hand smoke in working areas) you're out of bounds.

Likewise binge drinking leads to alcoholism (and its manifold problems), street violence and drink driving - not mentioning the health problems it brings on the consumer.
If a law was proposed to curb BINGE drinking I'd support it.

[Bootyzilla]

Yes, but where do you draw the line? How can you satndardise 'Binge'?

For example, three pints of beer and I'm anyone's. A bottle of wine is no problem to me. And I have a strange immunity to gin and tonics. I've had nights after eight or nine of the things and, while I'm drunk, I'm still well aware of my behaviour.

Clearly it's not the same for everyone. So how can you curb something, to a definition, which, to my mind, is not definable?

[Rec]

Okey-dokey these were stolen from the other thread with regard to this issue

quoteOriginally posted by LeBaron
I can see us turning into a nation of bores


quoteOriginally posted by Bootyzilla
LeBaron, I think you're right. Anodyne Milky-White is all very well and good in practise but in reality it's a Singaporean Nightmare.


Oh please - if you think the cutting down on the binge-drinking culture will turn us into bores I pity you, for that obviously means you depend on alcohol for your kicks.

I really pity people like that - and there are more than a few.
Please tell me that I've got the wrong end of the stick as regards ye guys??!!

[Bootyzilla]

quoteOriginally posted by redbulljunkie
the Irish Drug Dealers Association, I mean the Vintners Association. Bunch of thugs out to squeeze the country dry regardless of whatever damage they do. Oh and the price fixing...


Oh puh-LEEASE!!!!!

What, just becuase vile teens and sloshed souses lack the responsibility/education/mental wherewithal to control themselves, I am to be restricted, too?

How is that fair?

[Bootyzilla]

quoteOriginally posted by Rec
Okey-dokey these were stolen from the other thread with regard to this issue

quoteOriginally posted by LeBaron
I can see us turning into a nation of bores


quoteOriginally posted by Bootyzilla
LeBaron, I think you're right. Anodyne Milky-White is all very well and good in practise but in reality it's a Singaporean Nightmare.


Oh please - if you think the cutting down on the binge-drinking culture will turn us into bores I pity you, for that obviously means you depend on alcohol for your kicks.

I really pity people like that - and there are more than a few.
Please tell me that I've got the wrong end of the stick as regards ye guys??!!


I'm beginning to think that if there were a right end of the Stick it would be ignored in favour of the other.

I don't object to the ethos behind banning cigarettes in public or curtailing excessive drinking. What I have enormous problems with is the fact that I no longer have the same rights as nonsmokers, as regards where and when I may indulge, and it's the same with drinking. When my right to get good and drunk with my friends is taken away just because others cannot control themselves, then it's one less right I have. That's my gripe. Why should the majority of the country lose out because a vile few who can't deal with themselves? That's not democracy. That's just unfair.

And no, I don't depend on alcohol for my kicks. Just because I'm voicing the opinion, that if such bans and restrictions are forcibly placed on certain aspects of our lives, it will make the country boring and compliant and uniform, does not make me an alcoholic.

Does the fact that you jumped to that conclusion automatically make you an Idiot? Or the fact that you're in favour of a drinking restriction make you Amish? Or the fact that you seem happy for the government to interfere in our lives a Pushover?

And don't pity me, please. Pitying someone implies judging someone on a personal level. And if you're doing that, then you really have no business posting on a public forum.

[Rec]

quoteOriginally posted by Bootyzilla
I don't object to the ethos behind banning cigarettes in public or curtailing excessive drinking. What I have enormous problems with is the fact that I no longer have the same rights as nonsmokers, as regards where and when I may indulge
How so - if non smokers want to smoke they'll have to go outside too -how is that not equal rights? Don't harp on about having a smoking room again cause that's a dead beaten horse and if you had a smoking room you'd be exposing the barstaff to second hand smoke.

quoteWhen my right to get good and drunk with my friends is taken away just because others cannot control themselves, then it's one less right I have.
Have you seen the amount of people parading down Oliver Plunkett street, at 2am on the weekend, who "can't control themselves"? That's an awfully high percentage - and who say's it would be a wholesale ban - there's no way they'd regulate houseparties and if you want to binge drink at home you're more than welcome too - at least you're less likely to get into a fight, destroy public property or get arrested to name but a few ways drunks in populated areas are obnoxious.


quoteThat's my gripe. Why should the majority of the country lose out because a vile few who can't deal with themselves? That's not democracy. That's just unfair.

Why should the majority of the country lose out cause a few people want Ireland's out of control "binge drinking culture" to continue cause they feel they're able to handle it. Have you seen that Des Bishop show where he worked in Abrakebabra? Have you walked sober down any city street in the early hours of the morning on a weekend? This """""culture""""" is an embarassment to our country and how many times have you heard the irish described as drunks? Why should we hold back a huge healthcare and tourism saving initiative because some few say oh but that's not how it was done before - that's not democracy - that's just unfair! What would have happened if doctors refused to start washing their hands before operations in the victorian era because it imposed a new behaviour on them?

quote if such bans and restrictions are forcibly placed on certain aspects of our lives, it will make the country boring and compliant and uniform

There's a uniform restriction on murder - does that make us boring and compliant? Suffice to say that behaviour that adversely affects others is generally illegalised over time, and in changing government systems it shows how progressive we are that we're only debating the laws on curbing of binge-drinking and cigarrettes, instead of slavery, murder or hate-attacks. At the end of the day smoking and binge-drinking affects other people badly and therefore some framework must be put in place to stop this.

quoteDoes the fact that you jumped to that conclusion automatically make you an Idiot? Or the fact that you're in favour of a drinking restriction make you Amish? Or the fact that you seem happy for the government to interfere in our lives a Pushover?

Firstly I did not jump to a conclusion that anyone was an alcoholic - I said I pitied those who depended on alcohol for their kicks, be it as a social lubricant or their key ingredient to good night out in cork or whatever. There's so much more to do than go out to the pub and get twisted.
Often I feel frustrated by people whose minds are limited to going out to the pub, or if they go to something different they want to talk about it in the pub afterwards or some circles of friends who only arrange meetings in a pub. The list goes on. The pub culture is so strong in Ireland that late night cafe's, restaurants and public places make up a tiny proportion of areas people meet up to talk eachother at night.

quoteAnd don't pity me, please.
I don't - I was clarifying my point that I pity people who depend on alcohol to make their lives interesting and I inferred from your and lebaron's concept of Irish life becoming boring with binge-control that you therefore thought that alcohol-binges made Ireland less boring - which I agree they do, but not in a positive way.

My last lines were provocative, I grant you, but I honestly did not intend offence (a mild ribbing perhaps but nothing hurtful) I do not know either you or Lebaron outside these fora and therefore cannot make any personal judgements on you, and I honestly do not pity ye - as I find pity a horrible emotion to hold for anyone (so I need to hold it in reserve for exes!!! [;)] )

[LittleTimmy]

This country is FUBAR cos of drink. A friend of mine, who used to drink copiously, moved to china a year and a half ago. He returned this christmas saying that almost a chnaged man, saying basically that this country is so immature its scary. Very few people seem to be able to behave decently when drunk.
Besides that I think Booty is getting unnesecarily upset. MM is not going to take away your drink, the very most he will do is make it more difficult for younger people and really drunk people to get more alchohol (which is a good thing surely). And I'm sure booty you fit in neither of those categories.

[redbulljunkie]

A lot of things are upsetting. I for one am a fundamentally non-violent person, and when I have two much to drink I simply fall about the place and giggle as opposed to jumping on someone who passes me in the street. That said I still get thrown into the same category as the violent drunks simply because "you've alchohol in the blood".

I would love though for the people in this country to receive a "kick in the nads" as regards drink practices. Like Rec said, if you want to meet anyone for a chat, the pub is pretty much the way to go. The pub seems to be the only thing open late at night these days. If a weekly drinking limit was imposed, then we could have our one night a week of drinking, but a new market would open up for non alchohol related social venues in the evening time (not everyone likes bowling & pool).

And my argument near the top of the thread regarding pub owners etc., the whole pub experience these days is geared not for your enjoyment but to make you drink. Cramped settings, overly loud crap music. It all means that instead of socialising, you're simply forced to numb the experience with alchohol provided by your friendly pub owner. And Irish people seem perfectly content with this, even referring to it as a "good night out". Think it's clear who the bores are in this case. The number of stories I heard in college which consisted of getting langers and nothing else (not even a funny incident to throw in the mix) is rediculous, and these people actually think they're interesting for it! They should go on a bad acid trip instead or something, at least that would be interesting.

[bo_selecta]

If the Minister for Health is equating drink to violence...which does happen, perhaps a "zero tolerence" line from the police (which we were promised on several occasions by both John O'Donoghue and Michael Mc Dowell) would help.

Lots of people, me included, enjoy going out and having a few pints. There area few people - normally who go out intent on causing trouble - that give all drinkers a bad name.

Lately, I find myself not going to pubs to drink however. Am finding it less hassle and cheaper to go to a friends house with a bottle of wine or a few cans.

[odyssey_scot]

hmm, i dunno. i mean i can see where he's coming from. i'm a decent individual as those on this board who have met me will know. but i can't allow myself to drink more than a certain amount (8 or 9 drinks or so), or i get very violent. enough to have seriously hurt a mate (though i have no recollection), giving her a concussion just by the use of my fists.
People who are like me in temperament whilst drunk, but who don't control their drinking (i've learnt to control it...), those people are the danger, and yes, something must be done about, but not at the expense of the people who don't get violent.

being violent under the influence of alcohol can happen, but it's not excusable. you simply must not drink that much that you get like that. if you do commit bodily harm under the influence, i believe some action should be taken, and harsh action at that.

[redbulljunkie]

It's odd that you can still drink alchohol even though you had to give up the sugar. Isn't alchohol a highly potent sugar? Gave up the alchohol myself when I gave up sugar. (First time I gave up sugar, I started getting alchohol cravings instead of sugar cravings.

[amnesiac]

Alcohol is produced by fermenting a sugar. They are both carbohydrate molecules.

[Rec]

Thanks for the update Amnesiac I don't know where I'd be without you're statement of the blindingly obvious - lol!!!!

Anyways back to the discussion I was in the car with my dad today when an ad came on the radio with that generic 30 yr old male voice going "do you know where the problems of the world could be solved in a local setting, where good times are had by all, where you go to meet friends and have memorable times.. and so on" - and then it said - "your local pub" and the sponsored by Diageo. So I think the propaganda campaign has already begun, and in order to counter any backlash before MM, the drinks companies are launching an ad campaign to enamor the public with the pub, so MM comes across as a bad guy.
What do peeps think?

[odyssey_scot]

quoteOriginally posted by redbulljunkie
It's odd that you can still drink alchohol even though you had to give up the sugar. Isn't alchohol a highly potent sugar? Gave up the alchohol myself when I gave up sugar. (First time I gave up sugar, I started getting alchohol cravings instead of sugar cravings.



you're very right. a certain amount of alcohol for me is okay. but after a certain level of it, my mood swings erratically, and i start creating trouble. it's the same effect there'd be if I ate too much sugar.


anyways, i've (as of friday) given up alcohol. I cleared out every single drop from my flat (student flat....so that means almost every crevasse of the place had some alcohol in it).
why the sudden change? because my ex plied me with drink all friday, and I ended up cheating on my gf with her.

*puts hands up in air* I am an asshole, and it's drink that does it to me. Finally admitting it and am getting the hell away from the demon drink.
My saint-like gf is still with me, though, and I'm the luckiest woman alive for that.

[benjie2004]

This I think is the real root of the problem. I too am victim to the occasional extreme mood alteration having consumed too much alcohol. Its scary and the next day, which is the most worrying thing, I dont even remember it. I lost a very close friend before because i was shouting at her and gave her a load of abuse for the stupidest reasons. I also lost a boyfriend because I texted him on my way home from a night out, in an extremely bad tempter because he couldnt make it out that night. Neither arguments can I remember but I knew Id messed up.

I think half the battle is won if you know you're drunk and can resist consuming further. Sadly, this is not always the case and people go away overboard. Hasnt happened in a long time. Hopefully it wont again any time soon either. But I aplaud those who've admitted to behaving in a similar way here. (why do i feel like Im in an AA meeting).

I dont think being told I cant have any more alcohol will help my mood swings if I was in the state though. If anything it would make me worse. Obviously, I have a drink problem, but I dont think I need to be so extreme to join AA. I just have to learn how to control the amount I consume.

[RubberBoy]

My god people! he is a health minster his job is to improve the health of the nation thats what he is there for.

Pub sales where down 8% last year. Mainly I suspect because the extorate rip off prices they charge but you can be sure the publicans will blame every future problem they have on MM instead of there own actions

[redbulljunkie]

I'm sure MM will be sobbing bitter tears at the thought of people drinking less as a result of his actions [)]

[Rec]

Seriously though they should decrease the prices of minerals in pubs - why should people who choose not to drink have to pay through the nose for the privilege!

[redbulljunkie]

I know it's a fucking disgrace (excuse my language, but it gets my goat). EUR3.00 for a 200ml bottle of diet coke up in Dublin and it's not even spiked [(!] Where do publicans get off?

[amnesiac]

It's legal to mark up soft drinks as much as you want but reduced price happy hours are illegal. I love you Michael McDowell.

Mwah.

(that's the kiss of death you right wing neo fascist piece of crap).

[Rec]

I don't care about happy hours - I want cheap coke!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[capo]

I know a man called pablo Rec.......

[amnesiac]

*sniff sniff*

[Rec]

Does he sel cheap quality coke - cause I hate that store brand stuff!

[amnesiac]

You can get coke in stores now???