Sweden votes No

[amnesiac]

Despite the muder of Anna Lindh, Swedes voted to reject adopting the euro yesterday. What does this result mean for the currency, for the possible referendum in Britain and for the "European Project" in general?

I don't think Blair could turn around British scepticism regarding the euro in the current politcal climate in the UK. In fact it will be tough enough to win a third term and keep Brown at bay.

The rejection by the Swedish people is a definite step back for the currency. But did they make the right decision? I am very pro Europe but had I been voting in the referendum I would probably have voted no.

What has the euro done for us? It is over four years since we gave up the Punt... everybody monas about the euro being the cause of high inlfation and a rise in the cost of living here... but what about the benefits of the single currency? What does the euro mean to you?

[capo]

While I was very disappointed in the vote in Sweden I do think that there may be positive aspects to be drawn from it. In particular, I hope it will be a wake-up call to the French and Germans that they can't take the smaller countries for granted. I also think that future treaties will take more cognisance of the concerns of smaller states.

WRT the single currency I think it is working out very well. Low interest rates fly in the face of the economic policy of every government since the formation of the state and yet its working. Guaranteed low rates give a great economic stability.

From a personal perspective I was in Lisbon, Paris and Amsterdam two weeks ago and it is just so handy.

[redbulljunkie]

It is handy, makes e-commerce easier as well. Don't know enough about the subject to give a guess on its large scale economic implications.

[Dudelange]

Sweden's rejection of the euro was no surprise what was surprising is how the people seemed to be completely shocked at the murder of Anna Lindh yet still remained calm and voted as predicted unphased by this tragedy.

I think we should learn from Sweden and question the European idea and make sure that on each oppertunity we should protect our national interests while as much as possible embracing Europe, and not be bullied into making unnessecary sacrifices.
The euro has been good for Ireland we are better protected against the global economy, it's also good to see the ECB has not bowed to pressure from the French to change the rules to suit their ailing economy.Especially now as Germany and the Netherlands are in recession.

On a practical level some months ago I visted Malmo Sweden, and Copenahagen flying via London each time I had to change currency without leaving the E.U. it's only then you realise how uselful the euro is.

Next year will see the accession of 10 new states to the E.U., the election of a new parliament with Ireland loosing MEP's (Munster will loose one) and a possible referendum on the new European constitution. The entire E.U. is set to change dramatically and we need to get policy makers to come clean on what they really see as the future of Europe and get them to realise the great diversity that exists and needs to be accommodated.

Vive la difference !

[RubberBoy]

You may hear people moaning that the euro is causing inflation but any quick look at the facts show a different picture

Ireland inflation rate is running at nearly twice the euro zone average so you will have to look at something else to scapegoat

A very large chunk of the irish inflation has also been caused by direct goverment increases (as they struggle to balance the books after buying the last election) they have increased TV liciences fees, VHI, ESB, Stamps and taxs on a range of products all these have pushed the cost of living up.

Irish consumers are also just not good shoppers, if a pub/shop whatever is ripping you off money don't go there if enough people do that then you will see changes in prices in the right direction but we don't seam to be doing this?

Seperate to the inflation issue I do hope that the sweden vote will throw the spotlight on the emerging little v's big country divide within europe

[Slayer]

I think the Euro has been great.

It's exposed the rip off culture that exists in Ireland compared to many countries in the EU.

It often went unnoticed during the punt times.

[Lucifer]

Up until recently, hadn't inflation actually fallen since the introduction of the Euro?
I think it is kind of liberating that Britain hasn't joined the Euro; they were waiting for us all to fall flat on our faces so it is a great chance for us smaller/weaker economies to prove ourselves. Especially at a time when the world economy is in a shit aswell. An Post should be taken out the back and caned, though. We're going to run out of things to put on stamps if they carry on like this. An 18% increase in the price of something that is reaching the end of its lifecycle and which is mainly used by pensioners is just sick. UP WITH COMPETITION!
And if we're going down the EU route, any opinions about the Common Agricultural Reform policies? Maybe it wouldn't be such a bad thing to see the introduction of "super-farms". At least they could be made to be cost efficient, as the economies of scale in farming are enormous. Our food market is ridiculously under-supplied, how much longer can we afford to pay the high prices that small farmers need in order to subsist?

[skysabove]

Whatever about tillage, "super farms" are surely not a good idea when it comes to livestock-rearing. Fast Food Nation makes a very convincing argument that this type of agriculture is best suited to small-scale operations. CJD and meningitis are the flipside of increased cost-efficiency.

As for the euro, I'm all for it. It's great in areas like the French/German border where you can just nip back and forth without worrying about currency differences.

[RubberBoy]

quoteOriginally posted by Lucifer
Up until recently, hadn't inflation actually fallen since the introduction of the Euro


It was the rate of increase of our inflation that had fallen but it was still way higher then the rest of euro zone and part of that decrease happens every summer due to sales.

As for super farms I think thats heading the wrong direction totaly,

We all ready have over supply
Super farms will give less rural employment
Reduce quality of product
Damage our "image" of green lush unspoiled island

Going for smaller greener type production would
solve over supply so farmers would get more for what they do grow, rather then reling so heavyly on subsisties
Create more employment
Improve quality
add to our tourist value
and greener food would become cheaper

[Lucifer]

But Rubberboy, if you decrease the size of the operation, then you lose efficiency in things like bulk buying, look at cash and carry prices v regular retail prices for example. At the moment, we are, in effect paying double for food, with the supermarket price and the subsidies that farmers receive indirectly through our taxation. Restricting the market will only raise prices.
I seriously doubt that anyone who has been here recently still thinks of Ireland as the Emerald Isle. Look at Killarney, one of the most beautiful areas in the country, where some of the lakes have been labeled poisonous due to farming and industrial effluent being released into them. (Although to be fair, that is, in part a structural problem)
Can you tell that I am a black-hearted capitalist? ;)

[RubberBoy]

quoteOriginally posted by Lucifer
But Rubberboy, if you decrease the size of the operation, then you lose efficiency in things like bulk buying, look at cash and carry prices v regular retail prices for example. [quote]

Efficiency isn't worth anything if the product is crap, I don't think Isish farmers can compeat whith super farms by doing the same without fundementaly destorying the fabic Of rural Ireland (and thats false ecominies as it will cost us much more in the long run) What I think they can do is switch production methods to greener less intensive ways so they produce a smaller amount of higher value product

I am not talking about restricting the market I am talking about opening a new one

[quote]
I seriously doubt that anyone who has been here recently still thinks of Ireland as the Emerald Isle.


And why should they with mass illegal dumping, and bad farming practises which pollute the land and rivers. But that image and our history/culture are our only selling points as a tourist destination (it's not the weather or value for money)

But presently we subdise farming practises and bussniess that harm thoes very things that The irish tourist board is using to sell ireland with, so we end up undermining ourselves and your idea of super farms would speed that process up. I think the different sectors could be organised in a way that they support each other and inhance the image of Ireland makeing it easy to sell ireland as a tourist stop as well as easy to sell high valve irish food products

[Lucifer]

Hmmm, I take your point. I was actually thinking along the lines of a law abiding, non-polluting super-farm, but let's face it, in this country ideals are very hard to come by! )