the other place envelope

[jc]

hey....

just remembered last nite that i was given this evelope last weekend going into the club.... shoved it in my pocket intending to read it later but left it in my room at home yesterday, and my mum found it and threw it out... im hardly going to ask her for it back... so can anyone tell me what it was all about?

think i recall her saying something bout the club being exclusively members only over christmas!

this true? whats the big idea? surely welcoming new people is a good thing! is it going to end up just being the smae people in there all the time? whats going on here like!!!!!!!

[LeBaron]

They are really trying to piss people off with this membership thing.
The sooner an alternative the the Other Place comes along the better.

[amnesiac]

IF the Oyster has a late night licence after this supposed relaunch it could be a major blow to the Other Place. I must say that some of the staff who have joined over the past few months are incredibly rude and arrogant about the member issue. Anytime I've brought more than one non member to the door, they've been made to feel most unwelcome. Now seeing as the club ain't exactly thronged with people, I don't see the need for the attitude.

[LeBaron]

Fully agree, the arrogance is barely concealed. It gets even worse if the guest is str8, whatever happened to inclusiveness ?

[solice]

its the rules by which the club is operated, so it can serve alcohol and even be open. they have to be strict on the membership rule. it may suck but if they are caught allowing in anybody that wants to go in then they could get their license revoked and then there would be nowhere for the queer side of cork to go too to sweat in a sardine tin late into the night listening to broz

[damien]

The rules don't state you get to be absolute total pricks at the door. Kinda ironic that their attitude is "we don't want your type in here" and the attitude when you ask to be a member is to piss off too. Don't they get government funding of some sort ? As far as I know they have to be all inclusive if they get Government money.

[101333]

True Solice. I think some fairies in Cork have goldfish memories when it comes to issues like this. There was a time when there was nothing in Cork, that the 'scene' focused around toilets and parks. We should count ourselves very lucky to have the selection we have - sure its not great! But think of the people who have gone before us, people who have left the country etc etc because of nothing expcept crusing areas! The Other Place, to the best of my knowledge does not operate like regular nightclubs - its a members club - so a members club requires annual renewal of membership

[LeBaron]

Sorry Guys, I am firmly with Damien on this one.

A small bit of courtesy costs nothing, its the attitude that sucks.
And its is part of the progress that we have made that we should not only expect, but demand, better than that which existed in the past - even more so from our own !

If a str8 club treated its customers with the attitude that is prevalant in the Club it would have closed a long time ago.

Roll on commercialisim !

[Bootyzilla]

No, courtesy costs nothing, but then again if you had to deal with the homophobic scum jeering and the idiotic, thick angry fag-hags and commoners who aren't being let in for valid reasons (too much to drink or likely to cause trouble, reasons just as valid as any straight club), your patience would wear very thin very fast too. I've always found that it pays to be nice to bouncers, 'cause believe me, for every punter whose nose gets bent out of joint becuase of a rude bouncer, there are 2 more punters to take their place.

[LeBaron]

Why not keep all 3 ?

[damien]

I have an american friend who does some security and bouncing in Cork from time to time and he treats people the way american bouncers treat patrons - they welcome you with a smile and open the door unless they think you are trouble and then they politely refuse you entry.

He was working at a place and was warned it was a troublesome place with nightly fights. 3 weeks later and theres still no fights outside or in. You give respect and you get respect. Being an asshole to someone and still leaving them in just sends them into a club with negative vibes in a club with other people also feeling the same. That will only cause grief.

Going in with a smile always makes your evening better. For one it relaxes you and your smile relaxes others too.

Last time I went to the other place I knocked on the door and was greeted with a sour face and was told "members only" and got the door slammed in my face. Lovely. It was Amnesiac and ProudMary that got me in, in the end. (Thanks guys)

Yes one should always be nice to a bouncer and not be confrontational to a point anyway. I'm curteous to everyone I meet and expect the same back. One can do a professional job and still be polite.

[joeohara]

they have some nerve asking for memebership its a dump and unless they do something about the state of the place and their shocking customer service, i'd chew the cud with hannibal lecter b4 i'd set foot in that shit hole again

[Slayer]

I've never been told it was member's only.

Come to think of it, I've only always gone with members...hmm..lol

[Tonyx]

How do you become a member?

[joeohara]

dont bother tonyx theres better places to go

[101333]

You can get a form at the door. The funny thing about all the bitching here, is that most of yee still go there.

[damien]

Thats a gross generalisation, unless you know everyone here on the site.

[jc]

eh...hello like!!!!! i want to know hwat was in the envelope...?
just an application form or something? and what do i have to pay? why is it doing this membership crap!!!!! u dont get this in dublin, or limerick...or galway..or belfast... or anywhere! this is ridiculous! and im with that guy who siad its a shit hole! fist we have to pay 10euro...now membership...and for what!!!!! shit music...shit people... shit setting...shit shit shit!!!!! and those bouncers seriously need to be taken down a peg or too! most of the people going there are regulars so whats the problem! and another thing...whats with that stupid book u have to sign every time u go there!!!! as if people are seriously writing their real names! i saw fion mccool, superman, mickey mouse and tony blair down there last week! scrap it fast!!!!!!!

[LeBaron]

Naw, could not be... everyone knows Tony is a President not a Queen

[101333]

"u dont get this in dublin, or limerick...or galway..or belfast... or anywhere! this is ridiculous!"

It's becuase the George etc etc are night clubs, the Other Place is a members club.

[LeBaron]

But WHY is it a members club ?

[101333]

Not sure. But if you ask the manager I'm sure he will know. Actually, that would be more benifical to all - instead of bitching on here, why don't you take the complaints to the manager and have them addressed instead of typing up here - its the adult thing to do in this consumer society. Haven't being in the club in a while, but the manager is extremly nice.

[jc]

really! what kind of a sda ass is he to have a 'members only' club! sounds like a right loser to me!!!! huh!!!!!

[101333]

Its not owned by him, its the only gay club in the country that is owned by the gay community.

[TopLad]

Ok - the club ain’t the most aesthetic of places & the smell of Jeyes fluid is off-putting, but where would we be without it? I feel the comments here are very unfair. The bouncers are OK if anything they are more friendly than the idiot bouncers in places like Havana Browns etc. I agree totally with the members policy. We should not let every tom,DICK, & harry into the place. Why? safety & respect for privacy. As someone out to a select few & not "screamin", I would not like the thought of going there & finding it full of people there for a laugh & there to see the "fags". Some months ago there were quiet a few Sat nights where hen nights seemed to have ended up & it made the place very uncomfortable. No its a gay club for gay people. If membership is the way to go to ensure this, then I am all for it. The sign-in book is there cause it is required to keep a record of attendance at a members event - anyone ever a member of a golf club or leisure centre? My only negative comment reflects the scene more than the club itself. I am in a relationship with my partner for over 2yrs. We are very committed & in love. We go on the scene - not every week but twice in a month. We go there cause it allows us to go out as a couple & feel relaxed. We are fairly recognisable on the scene as one of the few long term young couples on the scene. However, the bitches on the scene never leave us alone. There is a constant jealousy thing going on. “break them up - they make us sick” – “I will f@%k him yet!!!” – everytime we go there – at least one of us will be “handled”, “propositioned” or bitched at. That is why most committed couples never go on the scene – cause of the jealous bitches who try & split relationships ‘cause the cant keep a man longer than the 10mins in loo at the club!!! Saddos!!! Leave us alone & leave the club alone!!!

[101333]

Poor TopLad - you Club experience seems terrible. I'm in a new relationship and have gotten hints of that! Agree with your points though go you and BIG HUGS!

[Bootyzilla]

Well, I don't, maybe but four times a year or so, but I think for what it is, the Club is better than most. It's a small club for a small niche market, run by grant money (or similar). It's not the best, certainly, but it's not the worst, either.

[redbulljunkie]

being the only club, it's the best and the worst [)]

[101333]

Very philosophical RBJ!

[damien]

Its a club because at the time that was the only way to get a licence for a gay pub or club in Cork. To try and get a licence for a pub would probably have been impossible in quaint backward Cork. The George is a proper licensed venue. We need more of them in Cork.

As for keeping a club exclusively for gay men, that will only bring trouble. An example occured last week where a pub got its licence taken off it for not serving travellers. When the time came to renew said licence the travellers objected and the renewal was turned down.

How ironic would it be that the Club would be closed down due to the fact of restricting membership to one set of people. It would make some juicy headlines too "Gay Club shut down by Equality Agency for discrimination"

We of all people cannot afford to be seen as discriminating like many of the homophobes out there.

[jc]

omg!i so hear what that guy said about going on the seen if u have a bf.... i think i probably know who u are and ive noticed this! not just ur experience but mine too... its like is it some kind of chanllenge to the gay community to wreck a relationship! my worst experience was one night i went to bathroom, leaving the guy i was dating alone... he was drunk but still... came back and this total queen was all over him... fucking wanker! and worse, at the time he was meant to be my friend! id love to give his name here to show what a rat he is but id only get in trouble.... but gay guys... go easy on the jealousy thing...its not nice!

[redbulljunkie]

Lots of jealous lonely guys on the scene.

although requiring membership gives a nice legal way of keeping out the straights. A straight person would have to be really gay-friendly (oh gawd, fag hags) to bother getting membership.

[TopLad]

Thanks JC for the support. Hope your new relationship goes well & next time some bitch causes crap for you in the Club then do what I do - wiggle my hips n' ass at the bitches & then point & say - "dream on boy - u ain't never gettin' a piece of that!"


ps - pvt email me as to who u think I am!!! Jesus - dont put it on here. I'm a very private person!!!!

[TopLad]

Sorry - meant to say thanks to 101333 & JC for the comments.

[damien]

Originally posted by redbulljunkie

although requiring membership gives a nice legal way of keeping out the straights.

Eh not necessarily. Excluding people for their sexual identity goes against the Equality authorities rulings.

[redbulljunkie]

But you wouldn't be excluding anyone on the basis of their sexuality, just on their desire to get membership. Noone's going to go get membership just so they can go "look at the fags"

[solice]

in agreement with RBJ. everyone is welcome to go, but only if they have membership. it is a deterrent for straight people and a kind of security net for gay people

[amnesiac]

Oh just go to a club you actaully like, that plays music you're into and with interesting people. Bring your same-sex partner, snog them and threaten the staff there with the Equality Legislation if there's any aggro.

[damien]

Originally posted by redbulljunkie
But you wouldn't be excluding anyone on the basis of their sexuality, just on their desire to get membership.


You have to give a reason for refusing membership too. [)] A valid reason.

[LeBaron]

I understand the points made here, especially TopLads point about not being fully out, however I feel uneasy that in the 21st century we feel we have to hide who we are behind closed doors.

And as to the state of the place, just lets see how quick they will clean up the place and thier act AFTER the Oyster offers a civilised alternative ( hopefully ), its frustating that they wont do it now.

[solice]

its not about refusing membership, its about deterring people we dont want going from going. they are less likely to go to there if they have to get membership

[damien]

So, you want to exclude certain people from the Other Place ? On what grounds ? Their sexuality ?

Would you be happy if Club One did this ?

[amnesiac]

Do the Club publish accounts? If we "own" this club as people suyggest why is it we're not made aware of the accounts? Where is our money going? If we don't approve what systems are in place to voice our concerns? Is there an AGM?

[amnesiac]

Quote There is no such thing as eqaulity if even ONE person is being treated discriminately.

[damien]

The CRO have no record of the Other Place or Gay Project Cork or some of the derivations.

[LeBaron]

Not a hope. If I was to take a guess i'd say its a private company with no share capital

[solice]

im not saying discriminate against them, they are perfectly entitled to go up and join

[redbulljunkie]

Originally posted by damien
Originally posted by redbulljunkie
But you wouldn't be excluding anyone on the basis of their sexuality, just on their desire to get membership.


You have to give a reason for refusing membership too. [)] A valid reason.


You missed the point, I didn't say anything about refusing membership. Straight people would be perfectly entitled to get membership.

It's like having a nominal charge on something. you don't exclude anyone other than those who aren't really serious. I was replying to someone's post of "it would be nice if the place wasn't suddenly taken over by hen nights, people coming to laugh at the queers" etc., so having membership would mean that anyone there would either be a regular or a friend of a regular.

It's a bit draconian alright, but it would solve those kinds of problems.

[bo_selecta]

Originally posted by damien
The CRO have no record of the Other Place or Gay Project Cork or some of the derivations.


I would somehow doubt it is a limited or registered company.

Even if it is, it is probably under a different company name (i.e is only trading as The Other Place)

[damien]

Ah, I get you both now. So the membership is kinda like those godawful speed bumps you see in some estates in Cork now ? A way of slowing or making some people turn around so that they won't join ? The bother and inconvenience stops people but those that really have a "passion" to get in will readily go through the membership process ?

But if as you said

quote it is a deterrent for straight people and a kind of security net for gay people

Even if its not discrimination per se, having rules set up to deter a section of the public with the idea that it will stop people is a discriminating mindset, which surely is just as bad in the long run as having a sign saying "No Breeders need apply".

[redbulljunkie]

It's not a great policy, but for a club who can barely handle its target clientele it might be necessary. It's like pubs who will only allow "regulars only"(even though usually that's bullshit) on busy nights.

The Other Place is after all a members club and as such are entitled to prioritize their members.

[damien]

I should really open my eyes

http://www.gaycork.com/features/articles/daveroche_1.html

quote The Cork Gay Project—the official title of which is the Cork Gay Community Development Co. Ltd. —is an umbrella company, and within that we have two distinct companies, one is the Community Development Project; the other is the Southern Gay Men’s Health Project.

The Southern Gay Health Project is funded entirely almost by the Southern Health Board, and the main company is sponsored by the Department of Social Community Welfare, FÁS by and large, through a social economy scheme, which allows us to employ up to five people a year.

[LeBaron]

The SGHP is doing a fantastic job, and all credit is due to them.

[Bootyzilla]

Yes, absolutely - and this may just be me, not reading things properly - but what does that have to do with the discussion about the club?

[damien]

Originally posted by TopLad
Why? safety & respect for privacy. .... We go there cause it allows us to go out as a couple & feel relaxed. ....However, the bitches on the scene never leave us alone. There is a constant jealousy thing going on. “break them up - they make us sick” – “I will f@%k him yet!!!”......That is why most committed couples never go on the scene


And you feel more comfortable in the Other Place even with all this shit going on ? Homophobia, bullying, bitching are all types of harassment and should not be allowed or tolerated.

I welcome the day when clubs like the Other Place which were set up because of homophobia in other venues close down due to lack of business. The more we integrate into the larger community and not hide and shy away the better for all.

It sucks that we have to be brave/bold/daring/ballsy enough to go to a non-scene pub and hold hands with our boyfriend and stare back at those that stare at us but we're doing this not for just today but for future generations. Right now the more desensitized people get the better I think.

To me straight people going to a gay club is sometimes curiosity. Curiosity is a good thing. It means they want to be educated. Better to have a straight person come in, be shocked at two men kissing and dancing and then get over the shock and have their minds opened and move on.

Next time in their regular pub they might not be the ones to stare if theres a gay couple around them. Yes I know not everyone is like that and you'll always get the homophobic eliment who'll slag you but they are going to become the minority, a really tiny minority in time. The population is surprisingly malleable and tolerant once they get some education.

If someone is mocking or taunting then security can do their job.

[damien]

Yes, absolutely - and this may just be me, not reading things properly - but what does that have to do with the discussion about the club?


Someone asked was the Club a limited company. I referenced Dave Roches article which said the Umbrella Group is comprised of as you said and I agree the fantastic SGMHP and the Community Development Project which I believe is what the Other Place falls under.

[LeBaron]

" I welcome the day when clubs like the Other Place which were set up because of homophobia in other venues close down due to lack of business. The more we integrate into the larger community and not hide and shy away the better for all "

Now that is exactly the point I was trying to make, well said !

Guys coming on to the scene today have, thankfully and rightfully, got confidence in themselves that they are "normal", as opposed to years ago when that confidence did not exist.
Also the wider world, more and more, also accept that "normality", so why regress into ghettos ?

[redbulljunkie]

I have scored with guys in straight bars without making an issue of it. However I think there'll always be a market for gay clubs for when you want to go out and score with someone random. I can't stand going out to a straight club with people if it ends up with them going off trying their luck with girls (or beour-hunting as the case may be [p]).

I suppose at that stage we could just think of gay bars as specialty singles-bars as opposed to an all-encompassing environment where all gay people have to go in order to be gay. But then we'll probably miss the community.

[Tonyx]

I agree RBJ nothing worse than when your friends head off at the end of the night looking for birds and all you do is stay in the corner getting more twisted, that is one of the reasons why I had decided to go on the scene in Cork soon and was thinking about headin into the usual place with my best friend who is straight, but to be honest after readin the comments here I'm not so sure.

I understand why they want to keep nosy troublemakers or hen parties out but wouldn't the Bouncers be able to do this job without the signing in and stuff.

My friend is cool with gay people but I can imagine him being asked for membership and signing in etc. and maybe even being refused for no decent reason being a bit of a pain and awkward for him.

[Tonyx]

that was obviously the OTHER place that I meant not the USUAL place as I said in my reply. Think I had better hit the pillow tiredness is getting the better of me. Night all

[jc]

The club isnt that bad a place... it is what u make it. sure there is the creepy uncomfortable pick up atmosphere, but i must say ive never experienced any problems in there. the bouncers in fairness are always on the look out for trouble. once there was this really persistant guy trying to hit on me, and i clearly wasnt interested, but he kept trying. so eventually, one of the bouncers came up and sked me if i was ok... the guy got the hint! this wouldnt happen in other clubs. maybe for girls but not for a guy. i remember another time in the club uptairs from the cube, this awful guy tried to pull me into the toilets! and i actually had to go up to one of the bouncers for help! dont know if they did anything but it was scary! especially going home!

but another thing i notice about the club... when they say the bar closes at 2am, they mean it! i thought i was going to get a last drink in last week...went to the bar, it was about 5 seconds past 2, and there wasnt a bar person in sight! another time, i was at the abr at 1.45, the guy served everyone else that was waiting, but not me! i wasnt drunk and got really frustrated! but no satisfaction! they need to be more liberal on this aspect! and another thing...friends shouldnt be favoured when theres a large queue of people waiting to be served! thats just bad form!

[101333]

Originally posted by redbulljunkie

although requiring membership gives a nice legal way of keeping out the straights.


Eh not necessarily. Excluding people for their sexual identity goes against the Equality authorities rulings.


No it doesn't because it's a private club. Travellers could do the same if they started such a club. The Act is for Service Provision and Service providers but not private clubs

[redbulljunkie]

try reading the rest of the thread.

[damien]

DISCRIMINATING CLUBS

The specific provisions relating to clubs refer to bodies that have applied for or hold a certificate of registration under the Registration of Clubs Act, 1904 to 1999. This registration allows clubs to sell alcohol to members and certain visitors. Unlike the provisions in relation to goods and services, the Equal Status Act, 2000 does not ban discrimination outright.


What is prohibited?

In general, a club will be treated to be a discriminating club if
1) It has a rule, policy or practice which discriminates against a member or applicant or
2) A person involved in its management discriminates against a member or applicant in relation to the affairs of the club.

This include issues of admission, terms and conditions of membership, terminating membership and making reasonable accommodation for members with disabilities (subject to nominal cost exception).


What is allowed?

A club will not be considered to be a discriminating club by reason only that
1) If the principal purpose of the club is to cater only for the needs of persons of particular group from within the nine grounds.

2) It confines benefits or privileges to particular categories of Age or Gender where it is not practicable for those outside the category to enjoy the benefit or privilege at the same time as members within the category. The clubs must make arrangements to offer the same or a reasonably equivalent benefit or privilege to those members outside the category.

3) It has different types of membership, access to which is not based on any discriminatory ground.

4) It seeks to eliminate past discrimination by offering particular fee rates or membership arrangement to persons of a particular gender, by reserving places on the management board etc.

5) It provides reasonably necessary different treatment to members of a particular gender, age, disability, nationality or national origin as regards sporting facilities or events.


Enforcement

Any person including the Equality Authority can apply to the District Court for a declaration that a club is a discriminating club. If it is found to be a discriminating club and it is the first such order made against the club the court can suspend a club’s certificate for a period of up to 30 days.

The effect of the suspension is that the club cannot sell alcoholic drinks. While a second or subsequent determination that a club is a discriminating club remains in effect, no certificate of registration shall be granted or renewed.

Employees of the club should not be disadvantaged by this order.
- there is an appeal to the Circuit Court
- a club can apply to the District Court for a declaration as to whether it remains a discriminating club.

[damien]

That was taken from the Equal Status Act, so they can in fact discriminate in a way.

[joeohara]

well i cant say i know much about the seen but i have been into that club a fair few times i think if you are gonna start asking people to be memebers instead of just walking if off the street then you need to make it a club that people want to be members of granted its not the worst place i have been in but i'm not exactly fussed about getting a membership there and no i am not complaining before someone jumps down my throat

[LeBaron]

JC.... see what U started !

[joeohara]

this can all be solved by a trip to jerry springer

[damien]

Or a personality transplant.

[Slayer]

LOL Damien

[jc]

im glad i started this! spread the info like! and its good to hear what other people have to say. found the envelope in another pair of jeans id been wearing that nite.... handed in the form.... paid 17euro altogether... to get in and the membership thing... not so bad! but that was it then like! no info on what it means or when i get a card or nuffin! what now like!!!!!????!!!!

[amnesiac]

The only change is the the change in admission price. A lot of people seem to think membership means owenerhsip. WRONG. It's a private company... membership gives you no extra rights or say in the running of the club.

[LeBaron]

Ah but you do get a cute plastic card !

[markinmanc]

friend of mine has been to cork recently, described the other place as bing full of 'gay farmers on the pull'.

i assume this isnt accurate.

does angi still DJ there?

[Proud Mary 1980]

Ok I haven't read all of the post but I'm bright and taking a lucky guess I'm guessing the nature of the discussion is membership of the other place. Yes it is annoying having to join, but is safe, safe because you are known and conmtact details are had. Safe in case of a fire or a raid, if you don't want to go, don't go, if you do want to go, JOIN.

[NuMarvel]

Mark, I don't think I can ever remember Angi DJing in the Other Place and I've been going there off and on for 4 years (in fact the 4th anniversary of my first time in there was just a few days back!! Yaaa, go me! Didn't get a card or nothing though [-((]. Oh well, sure I'll live)

As for the "farmers on the pull" comment, it's not entirely like that. But it brought a smile to my face cause it reminded me of the unight club in the town where I'm from...sigh... memories....

[damien]

But NuMarvel, you go there on the pull and well I'd just like to say "Nice Wellies Fella"

[NuMarvel]

Bwaaaa haaaaaa haaaaa!!!

Me??? On the pull????? Chance would be a fine thing!!

However, wellies are still available if you wanna have a look Damo... You only have to ask (just like last time!)

On a complete aside, I was raised on a farm and for some reason everyone in our locality referred to a pair of wellies as a pair of "rubbers". Little did I know that wearing rubbers could help save my life!!

P.S Thanks for noticing as well Damo. I put so much effort into trying to impress you. It's good to see it works!

[markinmanc]

if people view the other place as apick up joint, that doesnot devalue it. imho people take too restrictive a view of gay culture. for me, say cottaging, sauna sex is not in my acceptable areas of meeting partners. notice i said MY. i have done the others in the past i dont want to do them nw, because they dont suit my presenet view of the way i want to live

you may not find various things, various places as valid expressions of ourour culture, but we cant select our culture or approve. just accept that others do things we would not.

do onto others, as longs as it does not hurt others.